Melee Changes patched to Test

# Dec 03 2003 at 3:18 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

Yes, Warriors have been getting boned for awhile, but monks and rogues haven't had it much better.

1)FD SUCKS for a pulling skill anymore. Pacify and other factors make it much easier for other classes to do it, leaving our only decent ability to be mend(oh yippie).
2)there have been several days where I have gone into an adventure as my monk, and have literally hit A and gone to work on dinner, only popping back to hit the next target the XXXX class was pulling to us.

Monks and rogues needed something else as well..if nothing else as to give us something else to do besides sit on our little weapons.

-Solelron Tidal Fists
-59 Monk, Prexus

#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 9:48 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What about for Ogres and Trolls who when created NEVER had to worry about STA (endurance). Part of the reason I have an Ogre is that I don't have to worry about it and now at the higher level we are getting GIMPED because they want to redo the mechanics of melee. Thats a load of crap. IF now I have to worry about STA - I AINT GUNNA BE HAPPY!

RE: endurance???

# Dec 04 2003 at 9:45 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591759579085

Scholar

44 posts

It appears that this "pool" will only affect the new melee skills.
it does not sounds like a mana pool for melee.

i refer to warriors cause thats what i play.

Additionally it states

Quote:

Disciplines still have timers, so you will still have to wait until the discipline is available to use again, even if you do have enough Endurance to active it.

which leads me to believe that Warriors will still have to wait upto 60 minutes to use a 8 or 10 second skill, even if the endurance is there. WHich also makes a warrior wait upto 60 minutes to use a useful skill like defensive if another discipline has been used.

I would also imagine that you still cannot stack disciplines, (such as shield and Defensive) so many of the disciplines arent used already due to the delay in refresh.

i hope the changes are better than this. But will wait and see.
At least something is being addressed.

RE: endurance???

# Dec 03 2003 at 10:16 AM Rating: Default

Scholar

2,342 posts

Well if you’re complaining about *being* gimped instead of *already* being gimp, chances are you’re not a warrior. Therefore, the new system doesn’t even really apply to you, as the vast majority of the changes are for Warriors, Rogues, and Monks exclusively. If you *are* a warrior, I don’t see what you have to complain about. The way endurance is going to work in relation to the new skills will be very similar to how mana works for casters. If you don’t have it, you can’t use a skill. That being said, casters have dealt with using skills that draw on a limited reserve of energy from day one and never complained about wanting unlimited mana…

…so chill…

RE: endurance???

# Dec 03 2003 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591795099976

71 posts

I think what he is sayign is more to that, yes, our skills will draw on a "pool" to be used. But people who play casters build thier characters around this, and thus put stats into Int/Wis on creation.

With Warriors, we are bred to be Str people. Now if they make us dependant on Stm, it will hurt. As we didnt have a chance to prepare for it by building our class around that.

Its like making a necro and not puting any stats into Int. He will work, but not nearly as well as one that put as much points into Int on creation as possible.

Just my 2 copper. :P

RE: endurance???

# Dec 05 2003 at 12:35 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1591777790931

28 posts

I dont want to be rude, but you shouldnt be playing a warrior if you think their main stat is STR. It is STA and AC. You point is to get hit and be able to survive it; if you are doijng anything else you are missing the idea. Play a Rogue/Monk/Ranger if you want a STR character...

RE: endurance???

# Dec 04 2003 at 12:55 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1684109858517

6 posts

If you are a warrior then your main stat is not STR. It is STA. That is the number one stat because it raises your HPs indirectly. So if you are a STR person I would think you are talking about a Monk or Rogue because STR has a affect on Attack rating and how much damage you do.

One thing about the timers from the things I have read it sounds like they are going to break the timers apart so where in the past all of the Disciplines are on the same timer now all or at least some of them are going to be on different timers. This would mean that if you start using Discipline after Discipline you might be able to run out of Eudurance, plus the opening skills using up eudurance might make you run out faster but we will have to wait and see.

RE: endurance???

# Dec 03 2003 at 2:42 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

Ktok - first, I dont complain, I enlighten. I choose to be a warrior and live by their rules, but to have those choices/rules anulled b/c of a soon-to-be-failed proposed enhancement can upset you.

Although, here is the equivalent of what you just said in casters terms:

We're now taking away your ability to meditate - I don't care if you've had it forever, you've lost it. Tough luck - you got to roll with the punches.

Same thing for an Ogre or Troll Warrior. We've NEVER had ANY penalties for having no STA and now our OLD disciplines (not just the new ones) wont work without it. How much of an enhancement is LOSING some of our abilities?

Thats like giving a baby some candy and taking it away!

RE: endurance???

# Dec 04 2003 at 3:05 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1591783915869

5 posts

You sir are a fool. Warriors have ALWAYS had a penalty for neglecting their PRIMARY stat STA. If you dont have STA you will never have the HP's to be a real tank. Your race has no bearing on the need for STA to have more HP's.

RE: endurance???

# Dec 07 2003 at 9:32 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1592252770658

242 posts

Actually with you STA ove 100 your penality was negated.

Information from Test Server Testing:

# Dec 03 2003 at 6:46 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

After extensive testing on the Test Server:

The current available skills we have been given to test, do not work. They do not seem to have any effect, whats more I've been told the skills may or may not be made 'resistable', and you get a chance to use these skills randomly once every fifteen seconds to once every twenty minutes.

As it is right now, none of these abilities are ready to go live, and with the current rate of 'Opening' chances for warriors, it's an average of one every ten minutes, that may fail when used.

These changes need some serious reviewing and modifications before they can be allowed to come to live if they're going to have any effect on the game at all.

I was hoping to see the warrior ability 'Provoke' actually caused an NPC to aggro. However, as I said, all the abilities are broken. They currently only return the message:

(GM) Opening chance reset.

It was mentioned these may be resists, however that would mean over the course of two hours straight meleeing and around 70 openings, every single time was resisted, or nothing worked. As far as I can tell, nothing worked.

~,
...

#REDACTED, Posted: Dec 04 2003 at 6:47 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Umm you did know thats why its called a "TEST" server and is there for to test the changes on.

RE: Information from Test Server Testing:

# Dec 05 2003 at 10:56 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

It's an update you moron...

RE: Information from Test Server Testing:

# Dec 05 2003 at 11:03 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591795300779

4 posts

Then perhaps you should use that thing called /feedback instead :)

dont think so

# Dec 03 2003 at 6:14 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

I dont think it does just pure melee but do hold my word for it

RE: dont think so

# Dec 03 2003 at 6:17 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

It was clearly stated by SOE - new skills goes for pure melee - warrior, rogue and monk. No hybrids.

RE: dont think so

# Dec 03 2003 at 10:17 AM Rating: Default

Scholar

2,342 posts

Amen... and about time too.

RE: dont think so

# Dec 03 2003 at 12:36 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1591769902580

Sage

73 posts

Disciplines are on the new system and are available for hybrids, at the very least. As of 12/3, I haven't found any of the other skills that are usable by the hybrids. Unfortunately, right now if you right click on a melee book, you are sent to desktop so we can't see who they're for yet.

animations

# Dec 03 2003 at 5:50 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

I wonder if each skill has a new animation or any animation? Like HeadBash?

#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 3:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Just one phrase Hihi DAoC Version EQ

All good

# Dec 03 2003 at 3:34 AM Rating: Decent

Anonymous

Anonymous

This is good , it gives some thought to the melee class rather than just hitting attack , kick , taunt , bash , ect . It will take some skill and will show who truely are the best .
I think this will make melee classes more able too solo 8)>

RE: All good

# Dec 03 2003 at 10:20 AM Rating: Default

Scholar

2,342 posts

The new skill system will definitely be a wonderful thing to have, but don’t count on it letting we tanks solo. That’ll never happen… completely against a warrior’s purpose anyway. We’re meat shields, and the primary reason for the update is to give us ways to finally out-agro the Paladins and SKs again.

RE: All good

# Dec 03 2003 at 5:38 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592257009527

Sage

3,937 posts

no, the primary reason is to make warriors have VIABLE aggro compared to a knight, not BETTER aggro

RE: All good

# Dec 03 2003 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1649292726517

19 posts

Actualy when you look at the Berserker class, the Warrior is going to be more the Class able to TAKE that aggro, while the berserker will be the "Wizards of Melees" Able to dish out MASSIVe amounts of damage in a short time but not be able to handle said aggro. So the Berserker will be a PURE melee damage dealer, while the warrior will become the mainstay tank able to have betetr aggro mitigation over all the other possible tanks. Now this is all hersay info from a friend who spoke with some one at SOE, but I believe it makes the most sense.

RE: All good

# Dec 09 2003 at 7:44 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591794296841

1 post

...you mean a Berserker's going to be like a Monk?

#REDACTED, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 5:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I agree homie. This will be pimping for all of us tanks. I mean up to just a patch or two ago I was working seance heading, touting(sp), and kicking at the same time. Now that we all get max Sence Heading, I feal like combat has slowed down. Now I have something that might speed it up. I can't wait till it goes live in E-marr server.

RE: All good

# Dec 03 2003 at 3:37 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

I like to hit attack and afk for a long time , this is going to ***** me over . As for soloing goes , you gotta be kidding me . Im totally relyant on other classes to do all the work while I hit attack and taunt . By Afkwarrior

Zing

# Dec 03 2003 at 3:31 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1591788252170

19 posts

One thing I would like to add, though not defending or criticing the new system since I haven't tried it yet: "Zing" spells instantly refill your endurance bar to full, so if you have a cleric or other "zinger" with you, this isn't too much of a handicap... There isn't a way to fill up your mana bar that fast, afterall...

#REDACTED, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 4:40 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Not that I am an expert or anything, so I might be wrong, but doesn't Zing "Cure" stamans? Stamana and Endurance will probly be different bars.

#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 5:27 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) uses sta bar. but they're not total idiots they had the foresight to change the "zing" spells. or so it said on the eqlive site prior to patch.

RE: Zing

# Dec 03 2003 at 10:22 AM Rating: Default

Scholar

2,342 posts

Yup, it's already been said that Zing is getting reworked. SOE isn't going to leave such a major loophole unplugged. In fact, they kinda said all stamina based spells and effects were being looked at for possible reworking.

#REDACTED, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 6:45 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ok,haven't realy tested it. I had assumed that they wouldn't be that dump, but then again it is Sony :)

#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 1:30 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i think this is hela kickass , and to the people who think this is bad i have to say one thing ,: change is a good thing, cant wait for it to go live - mynameismax 37 wizzie of the rathe

#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 1:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) i agree with Dagornirnaeth, you are giving mellee's more of a shaft than anything else doing the endurance system

#Anonymous, Posted: Dec 03 2003 at 12:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) if it aint don't fix it, this shiz is getting way old. SOE needs to stop pissin around with the game people love, cause they just keep ruinig it more and more from its original idea / style that brad mcquaid set in place when he created the game. Brad had the right idea leave well enough alone.

question

# Dec 03 2003 at 12:09 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1591795313505

29 posts

Hmm does this new system apply to hybrids, such as rangers?

RE: question

# Dec 03 2003 at 2:28 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593965736061

18 posts

The only thing that applies to the hybrids is that current disciplines are moving to the new system. All new melee disciplines will be for the war/mnk/rog classes.

The system wasn't neccesarily designed to take and hold agro it was designed to "balance" the three pure melee classes who were falling behind in terms of usefulness compared to the hybrid classes.

RE: question

# Dec 03 2003 at 10:24 AM Rating: Decent

Scholar

2,342 posts

No… Warrior, Rogue, and Monk only.

…and no offence, but I’m so glad we pure melee finally get some love. Besides, why would you want a new system designed to take and hold agro if you’re a ranger? <grin>

RE: question

# Dec 05 2003 at 1:01 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

I think you are weong about the change being directed at taking and holding agro. If that is the case why were monks and rogues included? Surely they dont want to tank, and rogues want to lose the backstab because mob is agro on them? This change was to increase the overall melee dps when compared to wizards and casters who can charm npc pets and therefore do 400 dps easy. It was also to add a need for players to pay attention to what they are doing. I feel that they really should have added hybrids into this as well though. They could have rather easily addressed all of the dps shortcomings with the new melee abilities. We all need to admit that all of the melee hybrid and pure melee) suffer from the lack of dps compared to pure casters. If you disagree why are monks and rogues ALWAYS parsed higher dps then rangers, Knights and even beastlords w/pets (I am a beastlord with Time gear and I can confirm this). I think this is a quick fix to appease pure melee but it will just shift the complaints to the other melee classes unless the address our overall melee dps.

RE: question

# Dec 04 2003 at 6:51 PM Rating: Decent

Anonymous

Anonymous

As a caster i think that warriors holding better aggro is fantastic (of course). The idea of a mana-like endurance bar is also a good idea. If they make straight melee classes hold as great aggro as they are talking about and they can do it always and completely non stop it wont be fair to the other classes and will take a lot of fun out of the game. There has to be SOME chance the mob will escape a little bit or its just mindless killing. The melee classes will be more fun as a result of this as warriors will actually have to think and manage an endurance bar(like other classes mana bar) to take advantage of this new aggro scheme. As a result of playing well warriors can finally be better tanks than pallys or SKs...even in ldons.

Dagornirnaeth

# Dec 03 2003 at 12:08 AM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

this is insane! suddenly melee disciplines, which have been around for years, suddenly cost this "melee mana"? puting them on this new system, fine. making the new abilities unusable while disciplines are active, acceptale, since the new abilities are really an addition to the classes (in theory, this sounds like another MPCs to me), but now the time-tested disciplines are UNUSABLE if the "endurance" has been used up by the new abilities? this is giving melees the shaft with a capital S! if melees have to PAY to use their disciplines now then their time limits should be SEVERELY reduced to compensate. or better yet, make the classic discs cost 0 endurance points. you don't make something as tried-and-true, not to mention essential to the game, as melees disciplines half-way useless and expect these new minor abilities (which will probably take most people a month to figure out how to properly use them in the first place) to make up the difference. and if all you're trying to do is test things for eq2 MAKE A BETA AND LET US PLAY THE GAME WE'RE PAYING FOR