Movement for a better Hibernia

For those of you who are unhappy with the current state of Hibernia: On December 7, 2001 Mark Jacobs, CEO of Mythic Entertainment, made the following statement; "Hibernia will get special attention in order to correct what people perceive it being the "poor stepchild" of the game. In particular all aspects of the development team will be turning their attention to that Realm (classes, spells, NPCs, dungeons) to improve it and the player's perception of the Realm. " This statement was made 14 months ago and the players of the realm of Hibernia are tired of waiting. On April 12, 2003 there will be a formal sit in protest on the Pendragon server of Dark Age of Camelot. This protest is to once again voice the concerns that make Hibernia feel, in Mark Jacobs words, like the "poor stepchild" of the game. This protest will begin at 8pm eastern. Any wishing to involve themselves in this protest should come to the town of Mag Mell on Pendragon at 8pm eastern on April 12. Protestors will be invited to the guild "Hibernian Protest". Some of concerns that will be expressed are these: - Graphical Detailing - Comparing Hibernia's graphical detailing to the other two realms one immediately notices the lack of detailing in Hibernia. Terrain - The zones do not have any "feel" of their own because the landscape does not have the diversity of the other two realms. Towns - The towns, with only a couple of exceptions, do not have any "feel" of their own because the buiding models given to us do not have the diversity of the other two realms. The capital city has much less graphical detailing than the other two realms. It appears that in order to cover up the lack of any real buildings/content in Tir na Nog the developer took the shortcut of making very long, wide hallways throughout the area as filler rather than constructing buildings. The buildings that are in Tir na Nog, with the exception of the castle and the training halls, are all cut/paste of things in the towns outside of Tir na Nog. Having two stables in the city was also a shortcut to fill space, they take up large amounts of space for one building, the fact that Tir na Nog has no horse routes makes these two stables a slap in the face to the Hibernian player. MOBS - The MOBs given to us lack the diversity of the other two realms. Even with this lack of diversity in the MOBs, Mythic has completely removed the Formorians from Hibernia. Give us some more MOB models. We really don't care if they are cut/paste from the other realms as long as they are different from the other MOBs in Hibernia. - Content - NPC - The NPCs of Hibernia do not speak as much as the other two realms (ie. bartenders who talk about the food and ale in their inn, bar patrons who tell stories about their own adventures, etc.) which leads to a very dull feel to the towns. We have no time of day events such as the magic show. None of that. Our towns have no life. Quests - The quests do not have the detail of the other two realms. We do not have a "learn to group quest" and we have nothing like the goblin attacks, skeleton attacks, or dwarf attacks that spawn large amounts of creatures just for the quester (sure we have the curmudgeons vs. siabra but that happens regardless of whether or not anyone is doing the quest). MOBS - Removal of the formorians from Hibernia (though they still exist in HyBrasil) is inexcusable. From simply an experience gaining standpoint the multi-pull grabeyes that respawned quickly are far better than the single pull Parthelonians that respawn VERY slowly. From a backstory standpoint, there is (or was) a lot of Hibernia's backstory around the Formorians. There was NO REASON for the removal of these MOBs, their removal has hurt Hibernia in its "fluff" content as well as in its ability to PvE for experience. The fact that the removal of all formorians was NOT documented is a slap in the face to the Hibernian players. What was said is that they were going to be fighting with Parthelonians. How can the Formorians fight with the Parthelonians if the Formorians don't exist? Towns - Calling Brynach a town was a slap in the face to Hibernian players, as was putting some NPCs just standing around outside Tir na Nog. Every developer at Mythic should know by now that Hibernians want some graphical content. If you are going to drop NPCs somewhere for our convience then please simply state it that way, don't get us excited that we are getting some graphics and then just place NPCs around. This includes dropping some NPCs around Kimba's tree, adding horse routes to it, and calling it Culraid. TOWNS HAVE BUILDINGS!!! Can we make it any clearer than that? A few people standing around are not a town. Now, while we are on the subject of buildings, where are the rest of our buildings? Hibernia has the least diversity of any realms as far as Architecture is concerned. We not only want buildings in our towns but we want enough diversity in those buildings that we can tell the difference between the towns without having to look around for terrain landmarks like rivers and lakes. Hibernia is also the only realm with no horses to/from our capital city, why is that? - Class Issues - Though it may be argued (and certainly is on the VN boards) that many classes in Hibernia have a multitude of problems in RvR viability, or in PvE viability, or in bugged spells/abilities, or in completely worthless spell lines this will not detail each and every one. Instead here are the areas that Mythic has completely ignored Hibernia as a whole. Bards - Even though bards have the worst offense/defense in the game, that is a class balance issue and not a realm issue. What is hurting the realm most with bards is that Mythic seems to not even know that this class exists or if they do they choose to ignore it. Mythic certainly does not know how the class works or care anything about the class' playability. Case in point: Mythic for months defended placing empathy on reinforced armor stating that empathy was the bards power pool, it was not until player logs proved that charisma was the bards power pool that Mythic finally admitted that empathy did NOTHING for bards. Case in point: Even after admitting their error and retrofitting every piece of +EMP reinforced armor in the game Mythic still put +EMP reinforced armor +into Shrouded Isles. Case in point: Even after giving other classes (such as the friar) self buffs for questionably useful rising stats (at least STR lets you carry more) the bards are still stuck with EMP as a rising stat and no buffs to make up for it. These types of things (and many more on the bard class) show that Mythic completely overlooks this class. This impacts the realm of Hibernia as a whole because so much of what Mythic expects from Hibernia relies on this class (endurance regen, crowd control, healing). Making this class unplayable except as a follow-bot class seriously hinders Hibernia as a whole. This is the only class that will be mentioned on its own because although the others may have individual problems no others are completely unplayable. Mages - Unlike the mages of the other realms Hibernian mages do not have choices between multiple viable spec lines. Even the much derided earth spec for theurgists at least continues to offer up SOMETHING that both the theurgist themself and their group at large can find useful. Spec lines such as enchantments and mentalism offer NOTHING to the mage and little or nothing to the group. A spec line for a single target mez and a pet that kills its owner is not a good line (all other CC spec lines offer area effect). A spec line for two pet buffs and a melee damage add is a TERRIBLE line for a mage... in fact it is the worst spec line in the game mage or otherwise. These spec lines need to be made viable even if they are never made into the most attractive lines. Fighters - The melee weapon styles in Hibernia are still the worst in the game. Our blades line has no after parry or after evade styles, it is no wonder most do not choose it. Even the lines that do have decent style types are still more expensive in penalties and endurance costs than the other two realms. This was fair when Hibernia was the only realm with the possibility of endurance regen, but it is certainly not fair anymore. - RvR Imbalance Issues - KEEPS - Hibernia is the only realm whose keeps have 6 climb points. The other realms only have 4. This makes it much more difficult to defend a Hibernian keep. Considering that our assassin class is the least able to take the punishment dished out on a keep wall it really seems that Mythic is heavily biasing keeps against Hibernia. TERRAIN - Though some small effort was put into stocking Emain Macha with a couple more aggressive MOBs, the terrain of the Hibernian frontier is still the most inviting to enemies. Unlike the frontiers of the other realms there are clearly marked roads all the way from the enemy portal keeps to every keep in the Hibernian frontier. Most of these roads are clear of aggressive MOBs and guards making it the easiest frontier in the game to navigate. Unlike the other realms Hibernia has no mountains (we barely even have hills) so our keeps are clearly visible in large open fields rather than obscured by surrounding terrain, the same can be said with forests. - PvE Imbalance Issues - DUNGEONS - Hibernia still lacks a level 5-10 dungeon. Muire's Tomb is still the biggest deathtrap in the game. REMOVAL OF PVE AREAS - I haven't heard the other realms complain of complete removal of hunting grounds (though I have heard them complain of areas being "nerfed") yet some of the best hunting in Hibernia has been removed... the formorians. LACK OF 10-15 AREAS - Though Muire's Tomb is supposed to be available to this level range, it is a deathtrap (see Dungeons above). Outside of Muire's tomb there is pathetically little available to the level 10-15 range. DRAGON - Do the devs really not know about this imbalance? - Summary - Though patch 1.51 did try to correct some of the glaring inconsistancies in how Hibernia's spells and abilities work in relationship to the other realms (making them work the same as the other realms) it did nothing to address the feeling that Hibernia is the red-headed stepchild of this game. For far too long the Mythic development team has ignored the fact that HIBERNIA IS NOT THE SAME QUALITY of video game as the other two realms. The players of this realm pay the same amount as the others and deserve to have the same quality of game. The graphical quality of Hibernia should have been addressed long before Shrouded Isles was released. The Mythic development team should know how Hibernian classes work (such as bards not using empathy). The glaring inconsistancies such as keeps with six climb points should never be allowed to pass through quality assurance. All of these things have happened and continue to happen. With each passing day Hibernia falls further and further behind in population balance, not because our classes are unplayable (with the exception of the bard) but because in EVERY aspect of game quality Hibernia comes up lacking. We want the same quality of graphics as the other two realms. We want the same quality of quests as the other two realms. We want the same quality of talking NPCs as the other two realms. We want an equally defensable frontier. We want equally defensable keeps. WE WANT AN EQUAL VIDEO GAME. - Chanur Silvarian -

Comments

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objectivity
# Apr 10 2003 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
Greetings

Let's get to the point and not start arguing about details.
Characters and skills is a completely different subject, namely balancing.
There are so many different opinions and views, combined with different experiences (good teammates or bad ones) and last but not least personal playing skills.. this debate would never come to an end, because everybody has a different feeling on the gameplay.

If Hibernia would have no relics on all servers, then it would be some kind of clear cut.
But the Hibs do possess some relics. So it can't be all crap.
Personally I wouldn't say we Hibs are so badly off either. Our chars are just somewhat.. different, and that's pbobably a good thing, because otherwise it would be stereotype.
Exact same skills for every realm? - that would be fair for sure, but, ahm.. stupidly deadly boring!
A friend of mine even feels like we have an advantage char-classes wise. So there you go.. another view ;)

While much of the balancing issues arises from just these uneven points of view, there are some clear observable facts.

Let's stick to those ;)

Bards and Emp may indeed be called an error. There's not much room for diff opinions on that one.
Apart from that everybody has to agree to all that's been said about hibernian artwork, graphics and architecture.
It IS dull.
And that's the subject of this article, that's meant by saying "poor stepchild".

I payed a visit to Camelot recently, and I'm quite sure it's exactly that level of creativity and devotion which people in Hibernia long for.
Diversity rules!

Please don't argue in circles about char details, but agree in the overall message.

Farewell
Alestan
practice then
# Apr 10 2003 at 2:51 AM Rating: Default
The only reason that Mid gets such a reputation of dominance is because most players are unskilled, and melee combat is the easiest to learn how to use. Therefore, since Mid has huge melee advantages, Mid is dominant. But Alb and Hib casters are EXTREMELY powerful when weilded correctly. Mid casters have almost no offense compared to the other realms. Mids stick to melee and support casting.

BTW Thanes being the weakest class? laugh
pipe down
# Mar 13 2003 at 11:02 PM Rating: Default
ok dunno bout all of you but hib galahad is real gimped we are constantly getting rolled over by alb and mid in rvr we cant kill the dang dragon and lvling is hard and spread out i'v played both alb and mid on diff servers and they have got it 10 times better as for the hib mage classes lets see hmm the only good buff the chanter got is a dam add that is nerfed our pets ssuck ae is only good to find hidden albs and mids most of the time its intreupted and your dead after you get 1 hit off. ments got a ae dot and mana regain are the only thing there good for they can heal too better than a bard haha
havent played a eld yet so no comment on them. bards are only good for boting for speed or regains. wardens are good for bubble some of the time. no comment on druid eather. or vw or animist. i havent seen a good tank class the scale helps but not much. our grafics and quests are sucks and if anyone thinks otherwise come play here and find out for yourself
Need a pacifier?
# Mar 10 2003 at 5:48 PM Rating: Default
Noone plays Hib because of the interior of the realm. Its a golf corse. The content there sucks. Have to run around forever. This has nothing to do with the classes being complete gimps. Some need help, but for the most part, Hib can dominate just as easy as Mid. PBT on a scale class? I would trade that for a earth theurg the other day. Start using strategy and tactics and you may actually find you can your classes arent that gimped
...
# Mar 10 2003 at 5:41 PM Rating: Default
"I mean, if there was nothing wrong with Hibernia, why are we outnumbered on basically ALL the servers."

Overpowering classes due to population issues is not the way to deal with it. Look at alb. They had a huge advantage and were left out things like insta CC and would get rolled by half the number of enemy. Its not fair and complete crap. Mythic needs to address the population issue outside of the classes. Hib does need a face lift. Thier land is dull, flat, and boring. But thier classes are just fine or I still would't be getting my *** handed to me by bards insta mez and the 1 million mana chanters. You ***** that spec lines offer nothing. Well, come play alb, home of the useless spec lines. Stop your whining and learn to play your classes.
Excellent Read
# Mar 10 2003 at 5:35 PM Rating: Default
Such a pity that other realms think we aren't the least bit gimped...

I mean, if there was nothing wrong with Hibernia, why are we outnumbered on basically ALL the servers. Its a joke that hibs need to stay on at 5 in the morning just to take a bg ck. and the only way we get our relics back is when every hib and their mother gets together and goes raiding...

not to mention the 2 SI clases for hib are the lowest rp earners of all the SI classes. So for any of you alb&mid leades that would have any issues reversed, ***** you! you got tons of love, in the last couple patches, its our bloody turn.

I cant beleive the hypocracy of some of you people.

peace

-zsubnot

Piffle....
# Mar 10 2003 at 2:45 PM Rating: Default
I get what they are saying but i dont find hibernia weakened in meelee deffinetly but they are the realm of magic! that means there spellcasters are the best in all the 3 realms while i think overall albion is far to underpowered with a lot of our classes like merc by chance, i mean they get a ability thaty cant be used to much and can be resisted where as u cant resist a huge *** hamster or moose killin you.

Overall midgard imo is way to overpowered



Shiela - Albione Excalibur (english)
Misses one of the most important points though
# Mar 10 2003 at 2:30 PM Rating: Default
The copy&pasted huts... used over, and over, and over, and over. Every Hibernian building is a copy&paste of another, identical down to the pixel. I wish so much that the article had mentioned this, I see it as the most stupid thing of all.
...
# Mar 10 2003 at 10:12 AM Rating: Default
I have played all three realms. Hibernia is not as gimped as this article puts it off to be. Bards are boring as hell but no where gimped at all. Insta AE Amnesia, insta mez, insta AE Mez. A bard in the hands of someone who has a remote CLUE on how to play one can dominate the flow of battle. I play a bard and I can help one group of hims take out 2-3 groups of albs with ease.

Group Purge? Thornwood Field? Overpowering as all hell. What other RA ELIMINATES both healers and casters for the ENTIRE duration of battle unless the person has purge? Give me a break, Hibernia dominates on a lot of servers just as much as Mid. Stop crying and learn to play your clasees. We already have one severly overpowered realm called Midgard, do we want another one? That way everyone can go back to farming Albs once again?
Mids and Albs to Defend
# Mar 08 2003 at 3:24 PM Rating: Default
Well, I would just like to say that I have spoken to many of the leaders of large alliances accross the servers. If you are a leader and haven't been spoken to, I will get to you. So far 75% of us and ready to do the same to have any changes made to Hibernia reversed.
true
# Mar 07 2003 at 3:47 PM Rating: Default
yea scale is extremly weak to slash guess what PLATE is like wearing nothing agaisnt a crush armsman suck terribly bards have good mez rez healing buffs speed mana regen those are all extremly uber its sad really albion and hibernia are really on the same level mid has the upper hand everyone - better dmg dealing tanks , shammys with bolts healers with mez speed stun mana regen to name a few, zerkers with Left axe, the ability to go 50 shield 50 say hammer rest parry and be able to use a 1handed and a 2handed hammer albions best classes are cabby theurgy friar pally and necro thats about it hibernias best i would say is enchanter champion bard warden heros are pretty good and so are bm are pretty good, mentalists are good animists are good IF they can set up there little mushrooms while Midgard has zerkers warriors healers shamans Spiritmasters Runemasters Bonedancers savages shadowblades are pretty good hunters are decent i mean overall midgards worst class is a thane... but i play on Albion bors my name is Siven and i'd like to chat with you :D
Pipe Down?
# Mar 07 2003 at 12:13 PM Rating: Good
44 posts
The main reason why bards need a helping hand is in veiw with the other bard-like classes. The Skald is as strong as most of our Heroes, not taking into veiw the bonuses of the magic. The Minstrel has chain armor, and are still very decent fighters, and not to mention their new assassin stealth bonuses.

The Reason why Alb dosent have a based Parry style is because none of their classes start with parry, nor are many able to take it. (Thrust line spec has an evade style, Ratfang though the damage is a bit low)

Also, our classes are underpowered. My Valewalker can't even sprint/haste run to a blue Necro (BG problem; no trouble with them reported at higher levels alone), Where as PVE I could solo oranges with about 98% chance of being able to pull a second with out waiting. Valewaker's downsides are a lack in skill points, and unless you put it into a skill you're just wearing cloth. The Champion gets the Crush/Slash Benifit from their ablity to switch in battle, okay, so one plus. Lower powered De-buffs and DD's, Half a plus. Our Scale armor (Along with all the other scale uses, are heavly weak agasint SLASH, the Main damage type used in EVERY realm. Oh sure, we get resistance to crush, but Only Mids stand to use crush and thats a generalization.

Midgard Has ALWAYS had an upper hand Melee, (Zerkers, Savages, Skalds to name a few) Albion has heavy damage Spell casters, Bows with range better than bolt spells, Not to mention The whole Platemail thing (that can be worked around so long as your not a Thrust damage user)

With SI, the 10-15 problem is Sort-of negated, but many do not use SI unless playing an SI class. Which keep in mind, are too busy trying to get to 50 or fine their way out of all the (god damned) trees. SI added a few new mobs... but thats about all they look like, in diffrent sizes (The Formorians do look nice though...) But Mithra is still a death trap. Even for a 20, Mithra isnt fun at the bowels of the tomb.

Our Styles could use a hand, perhaps by changing the post-block to a post-parry, allowing Blademasters some help, or perhaps changing the styles to allow a post-parry.

If Albion sets the standard on th rating of power, Hib sure does have the short end of the stick. Though, it goes with out question that Mid needs a slight tune down. Midgard is well balanced from WITHIN, but not compared to the other two.

Pellinor may have taken down the dragon, and alot of the hib servers have.... AFTER several tries and alot of dead hibs. As it is Percival hibs have killed the dragon, maybe 2 or 3 times... compared to Albion Guin, and most Albion servers, who have killed it enough times to stop counting.

I orginaly played Albion as a scout and loved the range and power of my longbow... but I could never seem to level past 20, so I tried Midgard Skald... It didn't suit me, so I tried a hunter... I got bored with that shortly after 7th level. I went to Hibernia, and made a ranger, who has been left at 31 (because I spend too much time in the frontier having fun)

Hib is the "poor stepchild" of DAOC. Mid is Big brother.. and Albion is the standard with the perks (Thats why its Dark Age of Camelot and not Dark Age of Tir Na Nog or Dark Age of Jhotenhime... though they dont sound as good)

We Hibs need some major scaling to par with Albion and Mid. It shouldnt be the realm that controls the power, but the skill and tenacity of the players! Hibs need a rebalancing back into the scale of the game more than Mid needs to be Nerfed. And Believe me, Mid's Nerf is FAR past over due.

Edited, Fri Mar 7 11:43:48 2003
Yay!
# Mar 07 2003 at 1:24 AM Rating: Default
Wo0t for this article!!!
#Anonymous, Posted: Mar 06 2003 at 10:12 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) oh shut your damn mouth you have no idea what your talkin about Hib Pellinor took down dragon you have bards that heal druids that heal wardens that heal and have PBT ments that heal you have incrediabbly strong pbaoe which rocks for keep defense Emain is wide and open because Emain Macha is a actual place in Ireland and Ireland is full of wide rolling landscape
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